Twaddle. I gaurantee that the cops were yelling "Get down!" and "On the ground!" repeatedly. They were faced with a guy that had said he couldn't survive jail, was known to be armed, was refusing orders, and reached to his left twice. They didn't shoot him the first time he reached - they gave him another chance. But he reached again. At which point they fired. A cop in the middle of shooting doesn't count bullets. He just shoots until the danger is neutralized.
Twaddle. I gaurantee that the cops were yelling "Get down!" and "On the ground!" repeatedly. They were faced with a guy that had said he couldn't survive jail, was known to be armed, was refusing orders, and reached to his left twice. They didn't shoot him the first time he reached - they gave him another chance. But he reached again. At which point they fired. A cop in the middle of shooting doesn't count bullets. He just shoots until the danger is neutralized.
Brock, I assume that you've never had any police or military experience from your post--no one who has actually been on the pointy end of the spear would make such an ignorant remark. Here's the fact, broken down simply, and using as many small words as I can: 1. When someone is reaching for a gun and you believe that they intend to shoot you or someone else, you are authorized by law to use deadly force to stop them. The law does not say that you have to order them to turn around, or let them shoot first, or any of that other nonsense that you TV-watchers believe. It merely says that you can act to stop the threat. Period.
In this case, Quick Draw Finicum was trying to pull a pistol and shoot a cop in front of him--a cop who still had a taser in his hands. Two other cops-who happened to be approaching Finigoob from behind, saw this and acted appropriately to prevent Finigoob from drawing that gun and murdering the officer in front of him. Nothing "cowardly" about it. But if you disagree, instead of cut-pasting your little bumper-sticker slogan there, tell us how you would have responded had you been behind him and seen him reaching for a gun as he faced one of your comrades. Please tell us what you would have done, and we can critique if from there. I, as an instructor in such matters, welcome your plan.
Brock, I assume that you've never had any police or military experience from your post
Only liberals use insult in arguments. 10/'67 - 5/'69 USARV, 6/'69 - 09/'71 OICC/RVN+, 06/'73 - 25/04/'75 DAO, US Embassy RVN
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Did you see the video from inside the vehicle on cell phone?
Here's the fact, broken down simply, and using as many small words as I can: 1. When someone is reaching for a gun and you believe that they intend to shoot you or someone else, you are authorized by law to use deadly force to stop them. The law does not say that you have to order them to turn around, or let them shoot first, or any of that other nonsense that you TV-watchers believe. It merely says that you can act to stop the threat. Period.
In this case, Quick Draw Finicum was trying to pull a pistol and shoot a cop in front of him--a cop who still had a taser in his hands. Two other cops-who happened to be approaching Finigoob from behind, saw this and acted appropriately to prevent Finigoob from drawing that gun and murdering the officer in front of him. Nothing "cowardly" about it. But if you disagree, instead of cut-pasting your little bumper-sticker slogan there, tell us how you would have responded had you been behind him and seen him reaching for a gun as he faced one of your comrades. Please tell us what you would have done, and we can critique if from there. I, as an instructor in such matters, welcome your plan.
To be fair, Brock--you started the name-calling when you referred to those Oregon State Troopers as "cowards". They were out there doing the job, not sitting back behind a computer. I also note that you did not respond and tell us what YOU would do. Why is that? As to the video from Shawna's phone, yeah, I saw it. Aside from the fact that it repudiated almost everything that she or Victoria Sharp said previously, showing them up for a pair of liars, I clearly heard her egging him on--and I hope she gets charged for that. I also heard Finicum yelling "just shoot me!" multiple times. And that's all that's on that video that I saw. You see something else?
He shouold have surrendered like eveyrone else did. He'd still be alive today if he had. But he decided to play John Wayne and go out a hero. And sadly, he couldn't even manage the draw. He failed at the last thing that he ever tried to do, going out as he lived--a failure.
But back to the question: How would YOU have responded had you been behind him, watching him draw an one of your own?
How would YOU have responded had you been behind him, watching him draw an one of your own?
They should not have entrapped him to begin with and they wouldn't have gotten into the situation. I have nothing in common with those people and I assume you realize the FBI is under investigation.
What do you mean "entrap"? I guess you're throwing me with that phrase. They stopped him and the Bundy truck and told them all that they were under arrest--a lawful arrest pursuant to a warrant signed by a judge. Everyone else surrendered but Finicum was resisting arrest and attempting to flee. When he crashed his truck trying to go around a road block, they again tried to apprehend him lawfully and he jumped out of the truck, refusing to comply.
But "woulda, coulda, shoulda..." the situation wound up as it did and everyone involved had to play it out from the moment that this one guy decided to resist arrest.
Bottom line: They had a right to arrest him based on that warrant. He did NOT have a right to resist. He also did not have a right to try to draw his gun.
Now none of this is germane to the question though. If YOU saw someone drawing a gun on one of your team members, what would you do? Come on--it's a simple question.
And yes, the FBI HRT is now under investigation for firing two shots and not reporting it. Shame on them if true. But that has nothing to do with the Oregon troopers shooting Finicum. Let's please stay focused on that one for now, ok? I'll even be nice.
Sucks to be Finicum, but the troopers who shot him believed that he was drawing a gun. I saw the video and I believe it. His stance and his arm motions were all consistent with an attempt to draw, and the gun was right there where his hand was reaching. Finicum should have just sat in his truck and obeyed commands like everyone else did. By refusing to, and by acting in an aggressive manner while known to be armed, he sealed his own fate. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Now come the day when the government really does overreach and injure real innocent people, I'll be all over that, and there in person if need be. But this wasn't a case of normal Americans just peacefully going about their own lives on their own property and being blindsided by overzealous government. This was a bunch of armed hooligans from all over the country seizing federal property without provocation or justification and then threatening to kill anyone who tried to remove them. I can't sympathize with that or support it in any way. It's not how our system works and not what our Founding Fathers intended or would have approved of.
I agree with Brock. There is no point debating the facts as you have made up your mind. The only fact I would like to hear from you is why there is an open investigation into the murder of LaVoy Finicum by the FBI.
There isn't an investigation into the death of Finicum at all. That was closed and it was determined that that Ohio troopers acted appropriately. The FBI agents are being investigated because one apparently fired two shots from his rifle and did not report firing his weapon. Others on his team may have known and not said anything. But that has nothing to do with Finicum's "suicide by cop". Seperate events at the same time and place.
It appears that you have not been following this murder closely. There is now an active investigation since the video from Shawna Cox showed that the FBI lied about the number of shots fired. I would put the link in but your system does not allow URLs.
I do not understand why you have decided that this murder was justified but that is your business. Just be aware that people judge people based on their actions not propaganda.
Yep. Ol' Rambo there was carrying on both sides. Suicide by cop, apparently.
ReplyDeleteShot three times in the back. Simple murder by cowards.
ReplyDeleteTwaddle. I gaurantee that the cops were yelling "Get down!" and "On the ground!" repeatedly. They were faced with a guy that had said he couldn't survive jail, was known to be armed, was refusing orders, and reached to his left twice. They didn't shoot him the first time he reached - they gave him another chance. But he reached again. At which point they fired. A cop in the middle of shooting doesn't count bullets. He just shoots until the danger is neutralized.
DeleteTwaddle. I gaurantee that the cops were yelling "Get down!" and "On the ground!" repeatedly. They were faced with a guy that had said he couldn't survive jail, was known to be armed, was refusing orders, and reached to his left twice. They didn't shoot him the first time he reached - they gave him another chance. But he reached again. At which point they fired. A cop in the middle of shooting doesn't count bullets. He just shoots until the danger is neutralized.
DeleteShot three times in the back. Simple murder by cowards.
DeleteBrock, I assume that you've never had any police or military experience from your post--no one who has actually been on the pointy end of the spear would make such an ignorant remark. Here's the fact, broken down simply, and using as many small words as I can:
Delete1. When someone is reaching for a gun and you believe that they intend to shoot you or someone else, you are authorized by law to use deadly force to stop them. The law does not say that you have to order them to turn around, or let them shoot first, or any of that other nonsense that you TV-watchers believe. It merely says that you can act to stop the threat. Period.
In this case, Quick Draw Finicum was trying to pull a pistol and shoot a cop in front of him--a cop who still had a taser in his hands. Two other cops-who happened to be approaching Finigoob from behind, saw this and acted appropriately to prevent Finigoob from drawing that gun and murdering the officer in front of him. Nothing "cowardly" about it. But if you disagree, instead of cut-pasting your little bumper-sticker slogan there, tell us how you would have responded had you been behind him and seen him reaching for a gun as he faced one of your comrades. Please tell us what you would have done, and we can critique if from there. I, as an instructor in such matters, welcome your plan.
Brock, I assume that you've never had any police or military experience from your post
DeleteOnly liberals use insult in arguments.
10/'67 - 5/'69 USARV, 6/'69 - 09/'71 OICC/RVN+, 06/'73 - 25/04/'75 DAO, US Embassy RVN
=================
Did you see the video from inside the vehicle on cell phone?
Here's the fact, broken down simply, and using as many small words as I can:
1. When someone is reaching for a gun and you believe that they intend to shoot you or someone else, you are authorized by law to use deadly force to stop them. The law does not say that you have to order them to turn around, or let them shoot first, or any of that other nonsense that you TV-watchers believe. It merely says that you can act to stop the threat. Period.
In this case, Quick Draw Finicum was trying to pull a pistol and shoot a cop in front of him--a cop who still had a taser in his hands. Two other cops-who happened to be approaching Finigoob from behind, saw this and acted appropriately to prevent Finigoob from drawing that gun and murdering the officer in front of him. Nothing "cowardly" about it. But if you disagree, instead of cut-pasting your little bumper-sticker slogan there, tell us how you would have responded had you been behind him and seen him reaching for a gun as he faced one of your comrades. Please tell us what you would have done, and we can critique if from there. I, as an instructor in such matters, welcome your plan.
To be fair, Brock--you started the name-calling when you referred to those Oregon State Troopers as "cowards". They were out there doing the job, not sitting back behind a computer. I also note that you did not respond and tell us what YOU would do. Why is that?
DeleteAs to the video from Shawna's phone, yeah, I saw it. Aside from the fact that it repudiated almost everything that she or Victoria Sharp said previously, showing them up for a pair of liars, I clearly heard her egging him on--and I hope she gets charged for that. I also heard Finicum yelling "just shoot me!" multiple times. And that's all that's on that video that I saw. You see something else?
He shouold have surrendered like eveyrone else did. He'd still be alive today if he had. But he decided to play John Wayne and go out a hero. And sadly, he couldn't even manage the draw. He failed at the last thing that he ever tried to do, going out as he lived--a failure.
But back to the question: How would YOU have responded had you been behind him, watching him draw an one of your own?
How would YOU have responded had you been behind him, watching him draw an one of your own?
DeleteThey should not have entrapped him to begin with and they wouldn't have gotten into the situation. I have nothing in common with those people and I assume you realize the FBI is under investigation.
What do you mean "entrap"? I guess you're throwing me with that phrase. They stopped him and the Bundy truck and told them all that they were under arrest--a lawful arrest pursuant to a warrant signed by a judge. Everyone else surrendered but Finicum was resisting arrest and attempting to flee. When he crashed his truck trying to go around a road block, they again tried to apprehend him lawfully and he jumped out of the truck, refusing to comply.
DeleteBut "woulda, coulda, shoulda..." the situation wound up as it did and everyone involved had to play it out from the moment that this one guy decided to resist arrest.
Bottom line: They had a right to arrest him based on that warrant. He did NOT have a right to resist. He also did not have a right to try to draw his gun.
Now none of this is germane to the question though. If YOU saw someone drawing a gun on one of your team members, what would you do? Come on--it's a simple question.
And yes, the FBI HRT is now under investigation for firing two shots and not reporting it. Shame on them if true. But that has nothing to do with the Oregon troopers shooting Finicum. Let's please stay focused on that one for now, ok? I'll even be nice.
drawing a gun
DeleteNothing shows he was actually drawing one, period.
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Looking at your site, it appears you would be a member of the Patriot community, but clearly you aren't, since virtually none of us believe as you.
Sucks to be Finicum, but the troopers who shot him believed that he was drawing a gun. I saw the video and I believe it. His stance and his arm motions were all consistent with an attempt to draw, and the gun was right there where his hand was reaching. Finicum should have just sat in his truck and obeyed commands like everyone else did. By refusing to, and by acting in an aggressive manner while known to be armed, he sealed his own fate. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
DeleteNow come the day when the government really does overreach and injure real innocent people, I'll be all over that, and there in person if need be. But this wasn't a case of normal Americans just peacefully going about their own lives on their own property and being blindsided by overzealous government. This was a bunch of armed hooligans from all over the country seizing federal property without provocation or justification and then threatening to kill anyone who tried to remove them. I can't sympathize with that or support it in any way. It's not how our system works and not what our Founding Fathers intended or would have approved of.
I agree with Brock. There is no point debating the facts as you have made up your mind. The only fact I would like to hear from you is why there is an open investigation into the murder of LaVoy Finicum by the FBI.
ReplyDeleteThere isn't an investigation into the death of Finicum at all. That was closed and it was determined that that Ohio troopers acted appropriately. The FBI agents are being investigated because one apparently fired two shots from his rifle and did not report firing his weapon. Others on his team may have known and not said anything. But that has nothing to do with Finicum's "suicide by cop". Seperate events at the same time and place.
DeleteIt appears that you have not been following this murder closely. There is now an active investigation since the video from Shawna Cox showed that the FBI lied about the number of shots fired. I would put the link in but your system does not allow URLs.
ReplyDeleteI do not understand why you have decided that this murder was justified but that is your business. Just be aware that people judge people based on their actions not propaganda.